Ccihlid Atlas

[Neil]

Everyone! There is a new book on Dwarf Cichlids, called The Cichlid Atlas, out by an extremely knowledgable fishkeeper/scientist, Uwe Romer. It has been out awhile in German, but now it is available in English. It is the most comprehensive book on Dwarfs yet! You can get this book, although I understand it has limited distribution, through many different sources. For example, www.finleyaquaticbooks.com, The Apistogramma Study Group, on Ebay, David Soares site(autographed copies), etc.
The book cost is somewhere between $50 and $60, but it is well worth the money. I have the German copy and am intending to get the other soon.
Hopefully, mordor will post here again and let us know a little bit more about it, since he has the book now. By the way, mordor, sorry about the deletion of your previous post! Neil

[Neil]

Just an update on the new Atlas. The Apistogramma Study Group has a special right now that if you join the ASG for 1 year - $17.00, you get 6 issues of there publication and a reduced price on the book - $49.00. That is a worthwhile purchase! You won't believe how good this book is. And the ASG is a good group to be affiliated with. Check it out.

[farm41]

How do I learn more about the ASG? Maybe I would join.

[Cichlids1]

I recv'd my copise of "The Atlas" on Saturday. Got one for my use, and a signed one to show off to fellow fishgeeks 8) Anyway, this book is going to cost me a lot more in the long run. I am going to have to sit down and prioritize what I want and the order I want to get them. I've kept close to 50 species of dwarfs over the last 20 years. I have read about a lot of the fish in the book. Verbal descriptions just can't compare to a nice glossy picture...wow. Apistogramma, Laetacara, Nannacara, Dicrossus, Biotecus, Telocichla (moved to the top of the wish list), etc...so many fish, so few tanks...off to read some more. If you don't have a copy, I highly recommend getting one. If nothing else, there are some awesome pictures. I'm going to have to spend some time and focus on the text and try to avoid gettign lost in the photos.

[Cichlids1]

I almost forgot...any rumors about a west african atlas yet? If so, who and when? If not, can we start one? :P

[Neil]

I haven't heard anything about a new West African book of any kind. And, boy, would I love one. The Tetra book is very good, but it is lacking so much new stuff and somewhat incomplete on some of the older stuff.
I would love to start one :P . It's a pretty big subject and info is awefully scarse. I think that that part of the world isn't very hospitable for collectors and not too many aquarists are maintaining West African species. I actually am trying to take pics of as much as possible. I will be adding about 100 pics to Apistogramma.com this weekend and about 20 of them are Westies. Hopefully, I can build from there by begging for pictures from others that have these cool fish. By the way... Anyone have any Westie pics that they would like to have up on the site! :wink: Neil

[Neil]

farm41,
You can check out the ASG site at
http://user.mc.net/~warewolf/apisto.html

The site is not updated all that often, but there is some interesting stuff on there. But the publication that they send members is called The Apisto-gram and can be quite good. For $17 it is well worth it. Neil

[apistodave]

I am selling copies at 45.00 apiece-David Soares 14697 S Bluegrass Ln Sisters OR 97759---5415499350-----Hope you don't mind Neil!

[Bissot_J]

hmmm
always the sam problem :(
==>> if by check or money order it must be drawn on a US bank <<==
to join ASG :(

i am in canada and my bank is canadian :(

David do u sell to canadian ?

B.

[Randall]

We at the ASG are going to be doing a lot more with West African cichlids, now that I'm on board. The upcoming issue of the Apisto-Gram, case in point, is devoted to "Westies," with much more to come!

I purchased my copy of the Romer Atlas from Dave Soares. The "Atlas" has got to be, by far, the best, most comprehensive English language source for American dwarf cichlids ever printed. I encourage everyone who even makes pretense towards dwarf cichlids to get themselves a copy. You won't be sorry you did.

Thank you.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

[Stahmer]

Hello everybody. My name is Sven Stahmer from Germany. As I saw you could get the Atlas now in english. We know this book already since some years here. I was wondering that you like it so much. We had here years ago many discussions about it and be sure that there are much better books about cichlids, especially apistogramma. Just take a look at the pictures in the book and make your own opinions (is every picture right? is every apistogramma at the pictures healthy? etc.). A better book in our opinion about dwarf cichlids you can find from Linke/Dr. Staeck or brand new from Koslowski. Regards to everybody.

[Randall]

Dear Sven,

The new Koslowski book is quite fine, to be sure, but it is not available in English. The Romer book, on the other hand, is by far the most comprehensive currently available in English. From my perspective, the photos aren't nearly as important as the content.

Linke and Staeck's book is quite dated now, and only contains 50 forms of Apistogramma out of circa 200!

Please translate the Koslowski book for us, okay?

"Vielen Dank!"

Randall Kohn

[Z Man]

As far as errors in Romer's book; Mike Wise of the ASG has written a 4 page 2,500 word article on all the corrections that should be made to the photo's in the book. I don't know off-hand when the book was first published but since then and the time it was translated into English, many of these errors were known but still not corrected. That is understandable if the book is only being translated as the translator would have no knowledge of any scientific changes and most possibly does not even know anything about tropical fish much less the dwarfs in the book. All in all it is a great book and well worth the purchase price. Maybe David Soares could tell us exactly how many copies of this book were actually printed in English? I'm sure it will be a very long time before Koslowski's book will appear in English. Z-man

[Randall]

Dear Farm41,

The ASG's website is Apisto.com. You can print an application form right off the site, fill it out and send it off with a check. The upcoming issue of the Apisto-Gram is devoted to West African dwarf cichlids.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

[Randall]

hmmm
always the sam problem :(
==>> if by check or money order it must be drawn on a US bank <<==
to join ASG :(

i am in canada and my bank is canadian :(

David do u sell to canadian ?

B.

Dear B.,

All you need to do to join the ASG and purchase the Romer Atlas is to have your bank draw a check in US dollars and send it to the ASG Apisto.com. To compensate for the bank charge, it might be better to join for, say, 3 or more years. One one-year membership plus the bank charge for the check might prove somewhat expensive.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

[Stahmer]

As I understood, most members here are talking english. I just anwered to this forum that as long as other books (for example from Koslowski) are not translated, you are in "good hands" with the Römer-book. But I´ll discuss this point when I next meet with Dr. Staeck and Mr Koslowski. About the Koslowski book: I´m sure it is one of the best in our time I ever saw about Apistogramma. Lots of pictures are also made by members of the AKZ in Germany, the leading group for dwarf cichlids in Europe. Would be nice if you also can get it very soon.

Kind regads from Germany.

Sven.

[jvr]

I have checked several search engines and can not find a source of this book. Would any one know where I can order it.
********************************************
Bissot_J wrote:

hmmm
always the sam problem
==>> if by check or money order it must be drawn on a US bank <<==
to join ASG

i am in canada and my bank is canadian

David do u sell to canadian ?

B.
I have found no obtsacles regarding US payments - You can get a US postal money order at any post office in Canada. You can open a US chequing account drawn on a US bank with any Canadian Bank and last but not least if the organization allows it pay by credit card. Credit card is the easiest, I pay the ACA and the AKA on-line that way for my memberships.
It all works fine.

John

[perrito_blanco]

As far as errors in Romer's book; Mike Wise of the ASG has written a 4 page 2,500 word article on all the corrections that should be made to the photo's in the book.

:?:
Does anyone know where can I get this article? I plan to get this book soon and the article would be nice to keep with it.

[Neil]

perrito_blanco,

You might try contacting the ASG directly with your question. I am not sure if Mike's email is availabl on the site, but someone there can probably lead you to it. Good luck.
Neil

[Z Man]

Neil, I have already sent perrito_blanco that article. If any body wants it, e-mail me and I will send it back. "Z"

[madpiano]

Hiya

It's good if you are bilingual in this hobby :D

I have just had a look at the german web-site of Amazon and found the Koslowski book there, but it didn't get a good critique.

If you speak german, here is the link
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/3800138204/glance/028-5298458-0966133#

as most of you don't here some points which were raised:

- the photo quality is very bad in the book as most photos are too dark

- there is only minimal information about husbandry of the fish and the book is only useful to specialists (whatever that is supposed to mean)

- the book decribes each species into minute detail and covers Apistogramma, Taeniacara, Mikrogeophagus

- the pictures have no numbers or descriptions, so it is difficult to co-relate the text to the pictures

- the author keeps talking bad about his collegue Romer which apparently gets quite annoying through the book

- The book is a very detailed study of Dwarf Cichlids, but due to the above points very difficult to read. It is not recommended to beginners.

As I haven't read the book I cannot comment on the above points. If anyone has read the book, can you confirm this ?

As I can buy books in german or english, which one would you recommend ?

I currently have

"South American Dwarf Cichlids" by Hans J. Mayland & Dieter Bork
Landbuch Verlag 1997

I am still trying to learn about dwarf cichlids and would love a book where I can see the fish and can make sure I get the one I want (don't allways trust my LFS to have the right names on the tanks :roll: )

Thanks
Sabine

[Randall]

Dear Sabine,

From my experience with the better dwarf cichlids reference books that are available to hobbyiests, each one, in its own way, is of some value...perhaps some more than others.

Romer's atlas is probably the most comprehensive reference of its kind, especially where Apistogramma is concerned. Yet, I've heard criticism regarding the photos depicted. Of interest to me personally is that there are numerous photos of each species discussed, so taken collectively, the reader can get a pretty good idea of what any particular species looks like.

My concern with Romer's atlas doesn't relate to the photography used but, rather, to some of the text. Dr. Romer, in some instances, furnishes information regarding the husbandry and breeding of particular species as a matter of fact, when it would be of more benefit to the reader if he qualified the information furnished as that of his own personal experience. I've heard criticism from others along these lines as well. The misIDs and inaccuracies aside, I think it it an excellent reference.

Yes, Koslowski's book tends to be more specialized and, perhaps, is of most value to advanced level hobbyiests and to those who study phylogeny. To the author's credit, however, I think Dr. Koslowski surely new this when he wrote the book!

I wish to point out that the Koslowski source (in German only) is the only reference of its kind available to hobbyists that clearly deliniates the major species groups and the numerous species complexes within those groups. With currently ca. 200 known Apistogramma forms, not inclusive of color morphs corresponding to separate populations, Dr. Koslowski does a great job of making heads and tails out of the entire tribe. I don't perceive that it was the author's intention to publish a reference that delt with hobbyist oriented discussion of husbandry and breeding.

As to which book to get, I enjoy both for different reasons. The Romer source does tend to be more hobbyist friendly, while Koslowski's might appeal more to those who want to learn more about phylogeny.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn

[madpiano]

The misIDs and inaccuracies aside

Hmmm, I am really looking for a book which allows me to idendtify the species at the LFS tank (not too concerned about the males, more the females). Would Romer be good for that ?

On the other hand, as I am looking to buy Cactoides, could someone maybe just tell me how to make 100% sure, that I have the right species (male and female) ? That would save me from having to buy another book ?

Thanks
Sabine

[Randall]

Dear Sabine,

Hmmm. If you're merely looking to verify A. cacatuoides' identity in a local retailer's tank, such is not a cause for concern. A. cacatuoides is one of the more common Apistogramma species and is instantly recognizable, even to rank novices. To ID such a fish, one need not buy a book. If I may suggest, simply take a dwarf cichlid book off the retailer's shelf and look up what you would like to know there in the shop.

If your interest in Apistogramma can be summed up by, "That would save me from having to buy another book.", perhaps you would be better served investing in Cichla species instead.

Yours,

Randall Kohn

[madpiano]

If I may suggest, simply take a dwarf cichlid book off the retailer's shelf

I wish I could, but the Retailers here don't allways carry Dwarf Cichlids Books. The place where I am going to buy the pair from hasn't got any books at all....

If your interest in Apistogramma can be summed up by, "That would save me from having to buy another book.", perhaps you would be better served investing in Cichla species instead.


I already got one book about Dwarf Cichlids and I have been looking all over the net as well, to make sure I get the right kind of Dwarf for my tank and water (so I did do my reading :wink: ), but I am refurbishing my tank and its costing me more than anticipated, so I don't really want to spend another £50 just yet on another book. That will have to wait. Those £50 are currently better spent in making the tank as nice as possible for my fish (and me), don't you think ?

Yes, cactoides look very distinctive....if you see them next to another Apisto. But if there is no others around, can I be sure I get the same ones ?

I may just panicking here for nothing... I haven't seen any in the shops for ages and I may find, that as soon as I see them I will be able to recognize them, but I just want to make sure I don't get any of the acid water species by accident. (My water has a PH of 7-7.2 and dGH of 8).

Is there anything I need to look out for, to make sure I get the right Apisto ? The fish I am going to buy will propably be the only ones in te tank and may be very frightened, so I understand, their colours and markings could be slightly different than the pictures on the net ?

Does anyone maybe know of a breeder near London, UK ? (that would make things easier).

Greetings
Sabine

[Neil]

madpiano,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Great name!
Suprisingly enough, there are many species that look quite similar to cacatuoides. However, most of these will do allright in your water, so that shouldn't stop you. Distinguishing features to look for are 3 light lines under the lateral line (the horizontal line running down the middle of the fish), big lips, extended rays on the dorsal fin in the male, a lyretail (male), and maybe blotches of color on the back end of the dorsal fin. Some of these characteristics will be apparent only in more adult fish. Sometimes it can be difficult to differentiate between genders in these fish also. Adult fish should be no problem and will have less developed rays on the dorsal and a more rounded caudal fin (tail). They will also usually have a distinctive black front edge to the ventral fin (under the chest).
I should mention here that, if you are unfamilar with ID characteristics, this may help:
http://www.apistogramma.com/descriptionchar-article.htm
The main thing to look for is those sub-lateral lines in cacatuoides. They are a dead give-away. Other fish have them, but most likely, if they are in an LFS, they are cacatuoides.
Neil

[aspen]

sabine, you don't need a book to ensure you get some nice cacatoides. here's a link with some places to buy apistos in the u.k. maybe 1 is close enough to visit?

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=656

if not, they will surely direct you.

hth, rick

[madpiano]

Hello

Thanks for your answers.

Neil: That was the kind of information I was looking for. I do think that most likley the Apistos I see at the LFS are going to be Cactoides and Agassizi, but you never know :roll:

Rick: I know of those sites. But A) they are quite expensive and B) I would like to see the fish before I buy. But thanks anyway. If I can't find them in the shops, I will go and order from Mr Fish. Are Apistos seasonal ? I don't really need to have a wild caught fish and would actually prefer a tank bred / Singapore bred fish anyway.

One more question (sorrry). Can Apistos and Ghost Shrimp be kept in the same tank (without the shrimp becoming food) ?

Thanks for all your help
Sabine

[farm41]

I keep shrimp in all my tanks, and they all have apisto's. You will be fine.

[madpiano]

Great, as my Shrimp tank will be modified to house Pygmy Puffers :D