Is this overstocked?

[Griz]

I have a 33gal, 36x12x18, planted tank, filtered with peat, several pieces of driftwood, rocks and oak leaves, sand substrate. At the moment there are 16 neons, 4 false network corys, and a trio of A. cacatuoides (1m/2f). I would like to add some otos and dwarf pencifish. (Or one of the other smaller species of pencilfish, depends on what is available) I'm considering 6 otos and 5 pencilfish. I would like more of each but I think even this may be pushing it. Frequent and regular water changes are not a problem for me.

so, would this tank be overstocked?

[fishgeek]

in my opinion rules for stocking density are meant to be broken
once you understand the principles of water quality/changes etc

i will stock more densely in grow out tanks purely because i have too and less densely in breeding tanks

as long as thre filter is mature and your maintaince is ok

with those fish you will likley never succed raising any fry though
neons and cory's would need to go

otherwsie i dont think it would be too crowded except perhaps the higher portions of water column with the 20 or so fish

[Griz]

Thanks fishgeek. I agree with your advice, I guess I'm just fishing for the answer I want to hear. :lol: :oops:

I realize that raising apisto fry in this tank would be next to impossible and I accept that fact. I have a spare 15 gal that I may set up for that purpose in the future. I think that I would be OK adding some otos to this tank, it's the pencilfish that may be pushing things too far. Based on what I have read about them, I wouldn't want to keep a group of any less than 5 or 6.

[Mike Wise]

Contrary to popular belief, pencilfish are not schooling fish & can be kept singly. They are more closely related to the solitary predatory characoids than the typical tetra.

[tjudy]

I think you have room. I concur with Mike though.. pencils usually only 'school' when they feel threatened. There are a lot of other tetras that behave the same, but spread out into open water territories when not threatened. If you are looking for a good top-water schooling fish, I suggest marble hatchets.

[cootwarm]

I've got beckfordi Pencilfish in 5 of my apisto tanks (three 10 gallon and two 30 gallon). I just keep 2 in each of my 10 gallon tanks and I keep 4 in each of my 30 gallon tanks and they all do fine.

I keep 4 beckfordi in a 30 gallon with 5 adult viejita that raised a fair number of fry to maturity from several batches. This tank has an abundance of Java Moss in addition to driftwood and oak leaves.

In the other 30 gallon I keep 4 beckfordi and 3 pair of wild caught atahualpa with the same stuff as the above mentioned tank. I heard that atahualpa are agressive fish, but in this tank, one of the beckfordi is the dominant fish. He chases every fish that goes to the upper half of the water column, even the atahualpa! I plan to remove him soon. I think the other occupants would be more comfortable.

But other than that one renegade, I find them to be very peaceful and safe with apisto fry. With my viejita and borellii, I've had beckfordi pencilfish feeding in a fenzy on BBS right along side of very tiny apisto fry and made no attempt or mistake to eat even one fry. Like the thought of the fry being food never even entered their minds! The parents even tolerated the beckfordi pencilfish near the small fry. The parents trusted them also. :wink:

Michael

[Griz]

Thanks Mike, I didn't know that they could be kept singly. One or two, plus the otos would probably be OK then. Perhaps I can have my pencilfish after all.

Marble hatchets are a great idea tjudy, being a topwater fish. Plus they are in keeping with the south american theme of the tank and should like the conditions. I kept them years ago in a community tank. Hmm, maybe just a few. :lol:

[cootwarm]

I also keep marbled hatchetfish in small groups of 2 or 3. I think they might be more inclined to eat fry, but because they remain near the surface for the most part I think they're fairly safe with fry.

One time I got some Carnegiella marthae, or common name Blackwinged Hatchetfish that were labeled marbled hatchetfish at an LFS. Unfortunately, I was careless and left the tank lid open after feeding and all 4 jumped out! (3 different careless occasions :cry: ). I tried to get more but they seem to be rare. I've been looking for at least 18 months now, but haven't found any yet. They are also small. Perhaps even smaller than marbled hatchetfish.

Michael