rubbing cacatuoides

[orcun]

I bought my first apistos(cacatuoides) 1 week ago they are nearly 2 cm long, when I first bought my cacatuoides I feed them with live worms but I dont think they are healthy because they are collected from fens/marshes.now some of the fish are rubbing their stomach to the gravel and 6 of 30 cacatuoides died. I don't exactly know if the worms did this or not.maybe the worms caused some parasites
do you have any suggestions for rubbing?Do I need to put some salt or some medicals?

[fishgeek]

flashng or rubbing against things can be an attempt to rub things or irritation away from usually the gill region, though sometimes any part of the skin

it will be often linked to external parasites
though may equally be part of ammonia toxicity other txins like chlorine may be implicated

i would look at water quality and water change practices , then assess the fish more closely for any physical lesions/changes in colour or abnormal gill movements

their are many others with more practical experience here that will no doubt offer more information

andrew

[aspen]

as andrew points out, rubbing could be associated with your water. rule out these problems first. for external parasites, i like using dyacide by aquatronics. it is very easy on the fish and will get flukes, and all kinds of other nasties, and it is left in the water for 3 days. it seems very effective. don't use on scaleless fish, water temp should be 82 deg or below and should not be used on scaleless fish.

rick

[orcun]

today one of my fish begin tottering as the died ones,
when I look more closely ı saw small red spots in his gill and fins
I took him into a glass with salty water for a few seconds,it seems better now,there are less red points on it.
what should I do

[fishgeek]

get the readings on water quality posted , it will help us help you

red spots in the gill region are not common in my understanding-most gills become paler(cell death, anaemia), they may be small area;s of haemmorghe though low grade irritation would more typically cause overproduction of mucous and possibly makes a greyish shiner surface- very hard to appreciate visualy, most longer term irritants lead to hypertrophy again hard to appreciate visually

is the red on the operculum or gill lamela

small red area's on the skin of the fish makes me think of septiceamia problems , seen first in pale area of the fish this may require a suitable antibacterial/antibitic

localised irritations can happen with external parasites (maybe some reason for apparent respnonse in salt , then again may just be osmotic effect for gills and urea transport) lts of external parasites are actually visible with naked eye - i know i miss most things first time round -just keep looking

if you are that way inclined and have some hand magnification or a microscope then closer inspection of any dead fish may aid you search
gentle scrapes from the gill tissue will yield parasites if evident

simple answers like stress on new fish allowing secondary localised bacterial ulcerations or external parasites may just require frequent good quality water changes
keep us posted
andrew

[Randall]

Dear Orcun,

"Flashing" or rubbing up against objects is commonly associated with external parasites. If you think this may be case, I'd perform a partial water change, remove any carbon from the system and medicate with a proprietary medication containing Formaldahyde. When the treatment is completed, perform another partial water change.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

[orcun]

I told you that my english is not very good,and I can hardly understand what you are saying.and also hardly explain my problem.because I don't know some terms concerned to fish and aquarium in english and they are not written in the dictionary
could you please write your replies more simple. :oops:

Now let me tell you from the beginning.
when first 2 fish died(from 30 fish) I thought that it can happen on newly imported and small size(2 cm) fish
then I saw 2-3 fish rubbing,I didn't think that will couse a problem until one more has died.
then I look more closely,the problem was not only rubbing,this was the first sign of the disease ,it was being in only short periods.
after this,the problem is starting,
fish begins laying down to the gravel for sometime without moving then begins tottering, after a while it dies.
there was red points in the fins of a dying fish(I saw it only in one fish),but in the all other dying ones the pectoral and dorsal fins strarts to worn out(like they are picked out)
by the way there are 4 agassizi's(a little big from cacatuoides) in the same tank and they are very healthy(maybe this will help to understand the problem) 4 corydoras and two breeding Ancistrus dolichopterus

temperature is stable at 25 degrees and I make frequent water changes.

Aspen wrote that he was using dyacide by aquatronics but I could't find any product of aquatronics.it is very difficult to find most of aquarium products here
when advicing a medical if you give some more(similar) names/brands,it will be very usefull

today I have taken my fish in a pail and applied ektozon(brustmann)
for 2 hours with an air pump and heater in it,and cleaned the aquarium when waiting this,nearly %50 water change with adding tetra aquasafe into it.
I wish it will work.

apisto's are very new in Turkey and I can't find any useful source in turkish and there are not so many people to consult with...
so your knowledge and experience is very important for me,
again thank you all for your interest...

[Randall]

Dear Orcun,

So sorry, we didn't realize that there was a language problem.

I would dose (medicate) the fish with any brand of Formaldahyde. Aquarium Pharmacuticals makes a brand called "Quick Cure" here in the US, but any medication containing (with) Formaldahyde will do.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

[orcun]

everything seems ok now :P
no deaths, rubbing or anything wrong.
thank you all...